42 replies to this topic

[Isaac Green]

Looking back at the past topics in this duty post, it seems that the majority of those who have added to this forum have gone on in their careers and there are a new bunch of Marines taking up the flag. I, personally, am having a blast simming a Marine, and I was wondering how everybody else was enjoying thier posts. Also, I would like to know your philosophy when it comes to the SFMC, and how you see the future of the Marines as a viable duty post within the UFoP.

There have been may heated discussions in the past regarding the history of the Marines as they relate to Starbase 118, and while I think debate is the nectar of the fruit that is our individuality, I think there needs to be some independence when it comes to how we SIM our Marines. With that in mind, please be respectful to the other Marines and the way they do what they do.

I look forward to getting to know the Marines in our fleet!

[KNicholotti]

Though we have only been on board Starbase 118 for a month or so, and even though our Marines are brand-spanking-new, we try very hard to integrate the Marines and Security departments rather than keeping them separate (and at odds with each other). When we took over the Starbase, we rebuilt the Marine contingent stationed there so that it accents Starfleet rather than stepping on their toes.

The department, known overall as the 118th Tactical Marine Division, is set up as an experimental division whose sole purpose is to handle station related needs and the needs of nearby member planets that may require help/support. The division is further broken down into regiments:


The 401st 'Talon' Fighter Wing is the our flight ops regiment.
The 888th Infantry Regiment (The Crazy Eights)is a 'medical heavy' regiment that (when needed) can be placed under our CMO, Dr. Eliaan Deron.
The 292nd Infantry Regiment (Eagle Eye) is our Intel heavy regiment, complete with Intel liaison Lt Commander Savannah Taylor.
The 437th Armored Cavalry Regiment is operated under the direction of Starbase 118 R&D Department and Engineering (under Lt. Commander Kevin Breeman).

The diversity really gives us the ability to have PC marines in department head positions, while fully integrating the Corps with Starfleet. The hope is that it will work well, but only time will tell. =)

[KNicholotti]

So, how does everyone else see their Marines fitting into the bigger picture? Your ship? The Federation as a whole?

[mjohnson]

Personally I believe every ship in the fleet should have a Marine contingant. Yes I know Starfleet is an organization of exploration. But lets face it threats still exist out their in the universe. Any ship can be in a potentially hostile situation that standard security officers can't handle. With Marines on board it cuts down on reaction time. Also I do believe that Marines do need to be integrated with the security department as needed while maintaining their own chain of command. Also the possibility of joint operations would make it easier for the marines and security officers to work more effectively together.

[Marcus Raiden]

Personally I believe every ship in the fleet should have a Marine contingant.

I fully agree with this.

[KNicholotti]

With that viewpoint in mind, what kind of role would Marines play on a small ship such as the Nova class or another science heavy vessel where there is already a full Starfleet security presence available? I think this is an important point to consider, as some see Marines in these situations as redundant or pointless.

And to that end, what is it about the Marines that would make them able to handle a situation better than, for example, a highly trained or specialized security team (one exists in the form of a 'hazard team' on my ship), or a regular security contingent for that matter?

(Please keep in mind this is just a discussion. In the past, there have been issues integrating Marines in certain situations and some people have taken it personally, so let's not let this get out of hand and offensive. I know you guys won't, but I'm putting in this disclaimer anyways.)

Edited by KNicholotti, 09 January 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Marcus Raiden]

When i was first posted i was on a Nova class ship. As the lead Marine of a small SAR Team and there to back up the Security when needed. Tho i do agree that there could be a few issues that might crop up.

Edited by Kagran Of The House Agan, 09 January 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Ingram]

In my time on SB118, I've only had one posting, and it's as far from a small exploration vessel as you can get. So, everything I'm saying is based on my own theorycrafting.

We have a lot of evidence that marines aren't necessary for a starship to function. From TOS - VOY, they were able to function without marines. However, I think there's an opportunity for roleplaying depth and richness presented by having marines, even on small ships like the Nova class. If I were to roleplay a marine on a ship like that where there wasn't an established marine presence, I'd talk yo the security and command personnel and establish a niche for myself. Maybe the ship has a contingent of five or six marines who act as an elite team who respond to threats requiring more firepower. Or perhaps they're more a covert ops team that can sneak into areas unseen and unheard. Or fighter pilots, or Intel, etc etc. My point is, I'd find a place for me that the established security is happy to let me have.

And sometimes there's enough going on with security troubles that you can help out or perform a task for them.

[Marcus Raiden]

I also feel they can help in other areas on small ships from Engineering to Medical, But can become an elite fighting force when needed.

[Marcus Raiden]

From TOS - VOY, they were able to function without marines.

After watching VOY i do feel some of there encounters might have been easier if they had of had Marines on the Ship.

[KNicholotti]

I like that everyone seems to share the idea that Marines should have a niche rather than being lumped into security as 'just another Marine'. I (personally) think that point is most vital to any successful Marine - to have a niche that they can explore on their own while adding to the depth of the crew while maintaining their own individuality. (Again, all my personal viewpoint).

But there is also a recurring theme whenever Marines are discussed; that if needed, no matter what position or niche they fill, they can always fall back on combat and 'down and dirty' training that would allow them to be good to have with you in a firefight. Would it then be plausible to have Marines that don't have this background to resort to? Would there be room for Marines who specialize in areas that would not make them good front line meatshields so to speak?

(I love the conversation. It's the best I've seen here in a while!) =)

Edited by KNicholotti, 09 January 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Whale]

For a while on the Constitution, we had a Marine Medic -- someone who filled both combat and medical roles, depending on what was needed at any given time. I think that's a great way to integrate the marines, rather than trying to keep them as a completely separate entity. Why couldn't a Marine Captain also serve as a vessel's helm officer or even CMO? I would assume that despite their specialized combat training, most commissioned marines would have a further specialization, be it medic, communications, pilot, etc.

[mjohnson]

Well Kali even though im not a rl Marine lol just a rl combat medic in the Army. Yes Marines would have a secondary specialization. Although remember the old maxim that have been around for Marines forever. "Every Marine a rifleman". We often do get lumped into the down and dirty aspects of combat and very rarely get to fully integrate our secondary skills. During the last mission at the Embassy I kind of played with some of my medic training while simming. Albeit to a small degree lol plus my rl medical training was really used when I was assigned as a medical officer during academy training lol Whale should remember hehe I guess what i'm saying is that I agree with Kali we are more than mere security and more than mere meatshields. I also think it's important to sim my Marine with some faults I mean after all he is only human. I find that this brings a sense of depth to his character but thats just my opinion.

[KNicholotti]

we are more than mere security and more than mere meatshields

There's a difference between being more than mere meatshields and being anything but a meatshield. I think that's what I'm trying to get at. =) (Of course, this line of thought is just to invoke thought from all of our Marines/exMarines and get us thinking about different aspects of the duty post - not to make changes or force anyone to change how they sim in any way.) Is there a place for Marines who do not add anything to the combat role that we often (always) associate them with in relation to Star Trek?

My RL military experience lies mostly in the US Navy (and some AF) - With the lack of separate and segmented branches of service in the Star Trek Universe, would there still be Marines who fill roles akin to the 'Navy Nuke' or the 'Corpsman' or the 'Engineer', the 'Sub Driver', the 'Flight Mechanic', or any other role that would not ever be considered to fill in should a combat situation develop? Sure, anyone can pick up a gun (phaser) and shoot, but we often speak of our Marines being highly specialized killers for lack of a better description. =)

Edited by KNicholotti, 09 January 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[mjohnson]

Hmm to be honest rl marines dont have medics they use Navy Corpsman. They do have their own commo, admin, logistics, and security branches. They also have their own journalists so yes it is entirely feasible for Starfleet Marines to be used in a non combat role. Personally I think something akin to a combat correspondant would be interesting to see. After all we still have journalists in the 24th century Also Starfleet Marine Mess Officers would be something to see as well hehe.

[KNicholotti]

I know about the corpsman, my mother was one.

For the purposes of this discussion though, consider the fact that we are transplanted quite a ways into the future where combat and conflict are not quite what we know to be true here in the year 2012 on the planet Earth. Also, for the sake of discussion, consider the fact that there are not four (five) different branches of service (I am not familiar with how many branches other countries have, but I would love to get some input from those outside of the US) to draw from.

From what I know about canon, we don't see Marines or MACO teams past the years of Enterprise, when ships had a tactical Starfleet presence, but not a dedicated security presence. It is entirely plausible that the Marines were absorbed into Starfleet as things evolved and they became security. At the same time, as Lt Ingram mentioned, having Marines as a playable duty post gives the game a little more depth, especially for those who are looking for that kind of role. Furthermore, every PBeM ST RPG I've played in the past, as well as the official fan club of Star Trek, Starfleet International, have Starfleet Marines. Though they don't always make sense, they do at the same time.

I love the idea of Marine journalists...we have a Press Secretary on SB118 Ops...I think I'll put that idea into practice over here.

So, back to the topic...ultimately we know that Marines are here to stay and they aren't going anywhere. But there is a taboo that comes with playing one sometimes too - they can be seen as redundant, it is often assumed that they are too gung ho and contenscious to really work with, and having a position where it is unclear what the goals of the duty post are can easily frustrate new members/ensigns (2nd LTs) as well as Commanding officers who have to struggle to help them find a place where they can really shine. It is also the one position where we see no examples in canon, so playing a Marine is totally up to the player and that can sometimes go awry. As we are looking to create some standardized practices (cross threadding here...), is there something we can do to finitely define the duty post and the goals involved in a more in depth way than saying they are backup security, ground force meatshields, and are otherwise somewhere on the ship training for some special mission where their highly honed skills might come in handy?

[Marcus Raiden]

It is entirely plausible that the Marines were absorbed into Starfleet as things evolved and they became security.

I don't know where i read or if it just this time of night that Marines where under the direct command of the Federation not Starfleet.

Edited by Kagran Of The House Agan, 10 January 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Marcus Raiden]

I find personaly on the Avandar that the marines Including PNPC is realy good team as we have a wide base on the ship from Combat Engineer to Spec ops to Search And Rescue to CO. But i could see how it be hard to place a marine on selected missions, where its maybe more science base.

[Necessity]

I think Kagran alluded to a good point there. It's difficult enough to come up with missions that give all of the 'traditional' duty posts something to do that falls entirely within their remit throughout. Sometimes, as - for example - a tactical officer you may be asked to do something that more naturally befits a security officer or engineer if there's nothing more tactical for you to work on at the time. Or the Helm officer might find himself helping out in medical (hi, Tom!) or engineering or even security. Even if they're not explicitly handed off to those departments, they'll often be given tasks to accomplish that are more befitting of that department.

This is even more obvious with Marines, as unlike all other duty posts, *any* mission that doesn't involve shooting stuff basically has nothing for your bog-standard marine to do. Therefore it's vital, in my opinion, that PC marines have specialised skills, so that they can remain relevant and don't end up running endless training sims in the holodecks.

[mjohnson]

Thats why im hoping to flesh out my Marine at the Embassy more. I would like to see him involved in different missions that may not necessarily be within his realm of expertise. Put him in a situation that mere combat training just isn't enough remember that Starfleet Marines are also highly skilled in the same kind of courses that regular Starfleet Cadets focus on. We just have more intensive combat training. So yes it is plausible to see a Marine manning the helm/ops console. Just like how submariners in the Navy have to be proficient in all aspects of submarine operation.