42 replies to this topic

[KNicholotti]

I don't know where i read or if it just this time of night that Marines where under the direct command of the Federation not Starfleet.

According to Starfleet International (as best I can tell, this is the best organization to draw on for answers to these iffy questions - they are bigger geeks than we are... ), SF Marines are, in fact, a subgroup of Starfleet (not the Federation). That might also be why they are called 'Starfleet' Marines

"Fictionally, the SFMC is part of the Ground Forces that are rarely seen in the episodes but are assumed to be a part of the Naval Fleet of the United Federation of Planets." - From: http://www.sfi-sfmc.org/portal/

I did have to do some digging to find this though, and there really is no clear canonical answer other than assuming the Col West is in a SF uniform in ST: The Undiscovered Country meant that he was part of SF.

I also found mention of the possibility of developing the SF Marines in DS9 by a costume uniform designer who I guess was responsible for designing some kind of previously unseen uniforms that were featured in the episode 'Nor the Battle to the Strong', however, nothing came from this and the uniforms were assumed/absorbed by Starfleet.

Though not canon, Memory Beta says: "One early branch of the SFMC was the Starfleet Ground Attack Marines of the 2160s, a force that was considered inactive by the 24th century." This information was supposedly gleaned from a couple of novels and ST books. See: http://memory-beta.w..._Attack_Marines

In all cases, however, the Marines and any mention of MACO teams always came under the jurisdiction of Starfleet. However, if you find where you read it or if you happen to remember, please share! =)

Edited by KNicholotti, 10 January 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[KNicholotti]

On a totally unrelated note I just want to mention the serendipity here...first you mention the Navy corpsman, of which my mother was for 23 years before she retired, then you mention submariners...my dad spent most of his young adult life on subs; the USS Jack and the USS Henry Clay. (That makes me a double Navy brat!) Interesting choice of positions there!

remember that Starfleet Marines are also highly skilled in the same kind of courses that regular Starfleet Cadets focus on. We just have more intensive combat training. So yes it is plausible to see a Marine manning the helm/ops console.

Is it feasible to assume that Marines are highly skilled in the same courses as SF officers in addition to their own specialized training? Would that not require a much longer training time? And to that end, would that not make every SF officer null and void? Who would want SF officers aboard when they could get officers who were equally qualified in the same areas who came with bonus combat training? I only bring this up because there are sometimes Marines and others who view the Marine position as almost 'godlike', so how can we make this role, and the training that inevitably goes into such an officer, more realistic?

Just like how submariners in the Navy have to be proficient in all aspects of submarine operation.

I can take this in two ways, and I want to be sure I understand what you're saying here - either you mean:

A - All members of a sub crew must be proficient in a limited number of boat-wide procedures in the event of certain events and emergencies (which is true)
or
B - Crewmembers on a sub are pretty much interchangable and can fill multiple duty posts (which is very, very wrong)

And this brings me to a more important point; how much of the confusion over Marines (and other aspects of ST, our fleet, and even our individual ships) is simply due to something being said and others just misunderstanding it?

Keep it going, you guys are AWESOME! Also, if there are any non-Marines out there lurking, feel free to join in the conversation; just make sure we keep it civil and respectful. =)

Edited by KNicholotti, 10 January 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[mjohnson]

Well I meant A but no I don't think a Marine trains longer than a Starfleet Cadet I just think they focus on mainly combat leadership training as well as the standard shipboard ops that regular cadets focus on such fields as astrometrics, advanced sciences etc i do not think would be high on the standard Marine officer's choice of electives. The very fact that Marines arent "canonized" is actually a double edged sword being both beneficial(we are given more freedom as far as simming goes) and harmful(we really have no unified tasking outside combat)I imagine the President of the UFOP is probably guarded by Marines however Lol I would still like to see a Marine Assault Frigate as a playable ship. That should lead to quite a few interesting sims imho

[KNicholotti]

So, basically the overall consensus is that Marines should retain the 'elite fighting force' unspoken designation, but they should also have a niche that they can fall back on in various situations so that we don't end up with a shortage of things for them to do when Starfleet Security is all that might be needed or when there really is no place for a Marine in a mission under the 'elite fighting force' umbrella?

Will this help alleviate some of the past tension that Marines have faced due to their controversial nature in a so-called peaceful organization? What kind of specialties do you think Marines should/would have?

[mjohnson]

All Marines should have some form of medical training, thus they could be used in a support role for the medical team on ship and off. Different Marines could also specialize in other fields such as emergency transporter set up and operations, of course some would specialize in areas as weapons engineering and development. Some could also take more advanced training in ops/helm control. I really believe that Marines should avoid the Tactical station however it might cause some animosity. Because Marines review tactical engagements differently than Fleet.

With that said there really arent any limits like I mentioned before imagine a Marine journalist reporting on fleetwide news etc. Okay i'm getting long winded lol time to shut up . ::Mike steps down off of his soapbox::

[Whale]

I would think the more natural specializations for marines -- aside from the obvious connections like security and tactical -- would be medic and pilot, with engineering not far behind. That being said, I think it should be open to pretty much anything. If you look at organizations like JTF2 and the SAS, they have their own communications specialists, their own logistics people, even their own counseling staff in some cases, so I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a marine officer filling any role on a starship.

[Alexander Matthews]

I think Kagran alluded to a good point there. It's difficult enough to come up with missions that give all of the 'traditional' duty posts something to do that falls entirely within their remit throughout. Sometimes, as - for example - a tactical officer you may be asked to do something that more naturally befits a security officer or engineer if there's nothing more tactical for you to work on at the time. Or the Helm officer might find himself helping out in medical (hi, Tom!) or engineering or even security. Even if they're not explicitly handed off to those departments, they'll often be given tasks to accomplish that are more befitting of that department.

This is even more obvious with Marines, as unlike all other duty posts, *any* mission that doesn't involve shooting stuff basically has nothing for your bog-standard marine to do. Therefore it's vital, in my opinion, that PC marines have specialised skills, so that they can remain relevant and don't end up running endless training sims in the holodecks.

You have a valid point, but it depends on the mission.
You can have as many combat training sims, and all be different.
It is all in the eye of the creator.
I for a fact have conducted many combat training sims on the holodeck, and all different.
I use them as part of my job in the security department to keep things fun, and some of the crew involved during a low point during travel from place to place.

It all depends on what the crew would like to do, and how it is conducted.
My marine was a counselor, a Klingon. So she would use combat training to get to know the crew under a stressful situation.
So there is nothing wrong with combat training sims, you just have to use the in moderation.
My current PC, is a Tactical/Security Officer.
Trust me, he is not perfect.

[Necessity]

[In response to mjohnson and Whale]
In my humble opinion, it depends entirely on the individual marine. If I was in charge of a team made up of five marines I didn't know, I think it'd be wrong to assume they all had more than basic medical training. Probability suggests one of them will, but I see no reason to expect your average marine to know any more about medicine than your average security officer. Basic life-saving skills and emergency procedures, etc.

Many marines might undergo extra training, which would enable them to fulfil a role as assistant medical officer, for example. But I wouldn't expect them all to be so proficient. Likewise, I'd expect a marine to be able to weld a door shut, or diagnose a basic problem with a warp drive, but I wouldn't automatically send a random marine to Engineering confident that he'd be a great deal of help to the engineering staff. Some will have that training, but not all. Same with all positions, really.

I see marines as specialist soldiers, most of whom have a decent level of skill in one other area (or perhaps they really did dedicate all their training to be an exceptional soldier, perhaps an assassin or bodyguard for a high-ranking figure. But these would be a bit more limiting to play in the sim I'd imagine). A bit like cross-class skills in an RPG. He might be a level 10 fighter, then take some levels in wizardry. He'll never be as powerful with magic as a pure wizard, but the pure wizard will be glad of his assistance in a fight for sure!

tl;dr version: What Whale said. There's no reason marines shouldn't have secondary training in any duty post on a ship, but they should be written as if they're not as skilled at it as a character who's trained for that duty position. For example, if your marine has had some medical training, he's unlikely to be able to waltz into Sickbay and start diagnosing difficult patients that the ship's doctor was finding tricky (there are exceptions of course... maybe he's treated that particular problem before, or maybe his field-medicine techniques can be used to solve problems in ways a trained Starfleet Medical officer would never dream of using (the old biro in the windpipe type of thing).

Having said that, there's no reason at all a marine can't have additional skills, that come in handy in certain specialised situations. For example, back on the Aurora one of the marines had bomb disposal training. Needless to say, that became useful. Specialist areas like that are great. But if said marine also happened to be an engineering genius in general, as well as a marine, that might be a bit Mary-Sue and render the actual engineers pretty pointless.

I think Kagran alluded to a good point there. It's difficult enough to come up with missions that give all of the 'traditional' duty posts something to do that falls entirely within their remit throughout. Sometimes, as - for example - a tactical officer you may be asked to do something that more naturally befits a security officer or engineer if there's nothing more tactical for you to work on at the time. Or the Helm officer might find himself helping out in medical (hi, Tom!) or engineering or even security. Even if they're not explicitly handed off to those departments, they'll often be given tasks to accomplish that are more befitting of that department.

This is even more obvious with Marines, as unlike all other duty posts, *any* mission that doesn't involve shooting stuff basically has nothing for your bog-standard marine to do. Therefore it's vital, in my opinion, that PC marines have specialised skills, so that they can remain relevant and don't end up running endless training sims in the holodecks.

You have a valid point, but it depends on the mission.
You can have as many combat training sims, and all be different.
It is all in the eye of the creator.
I for a fact have conducted many combat training sims on the holodeck, and all different.
I use them as part of my job in the security department to keep things fun, and some of the crew involved during a low point during travel from place to place.

It all depends on what the crew would like to do, and how it is conducted.
My marine was a counselor, a Klingon. So she would use combat training to get to know the crew under a stressful situation.
So there is nothing wrong with combat training sims, you just have to use the in moderation.
My current PC, is a Tactical/Security Officer.
Trust me, he is not perfect.

I didn't say there was anything necessarily 'wrong' with training simulations, and I totally agree that they're an important part of the sim for some characters. I was talking more about the situation where you haven't really got a lot to do with the main plot, some 'pure' marines may feel that training sims are all they CAN do in some plotlines, because there's no 'place' for them. Which would be unfortunate. Never said there was anything wrong with a good training sim now and again. Kagran was fond of them, I seem to remember. Almost got Landau killed in one, once. Only came down to fix the [...] holoprojectors!

Edited by Necessity, 17 January 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[Alexander Matthews]

[In response to mjohnson and Whale]
In my humble opinion, it depends entirely on the individual marine. If I was in charge of a team made up of five marines I didn't know, I think it'd be wrong to assume they all had more than basic medical training. Probability suggests one of them will, but I see no reason to expect your average marine to know any more about medicine than your average security officer. Basic life-saving skills and emergency procedures, etc.

Many marines might undergo extra training, which would enable them to fulfil a role as assistant medical officer, for example. But I wouldn't expect them all to be so proficient. Likewise, I'd expect a marine to be able to weld a door shut, or diagnose a basic problem with a warp drive, but I wouldn't automatically send a random marine to Engineering confident that he'd be a great deal of help to the engineering staff. Some will have that training, but not all. Same with all positions, really.

I see marines as specialist soldiers, most of whom have a decent level of skill in one other area (or perhaps they really did dedicate all their training to be an exceptional soldier, perhaps an assassin or bodyguard for a high-ranking figure. But these would be a bit more limiting to play in the sim I'd imagine). A bit like cross-class skills in an RPG. He might be a level 10 fighter, then take some levels in wizardry. He'll never be as powerful with magic as a pure wizard, but the pure wizard will be glad of his assistance in a fight for sure!

tl;dr version: What Whale said. There's no reason marines shouldn't have secondary training in any duty post on a ship, but they should be written as if they're not as skilled at it as a character who's trained for that duty position. For example, if your marine has had some medical training, he's unlikely to be able to waltz into Sickbay and start diagnosing difficult patients that the ship's doctor was finding tricky (there are exceptions of course... maybe he's treated that particular problem before, or maybe his field-medicine techniques can be used to solve problems in ways a trained Starfleet Medical officer would never dream of using (the old biro in the windpipe type of thing).

Having said that, there's no reason at all a marine can't have additional skills, that come in handy in certain specialised situations. For example, back on the Aurora one of the marines had bomb disposal training. Needless to say, that became useful. Specialist areas like that are great. But if said marine also happened to be an engineering genius in general, as well as a marine, that might be a bit Mary-Sue and render the actual engineers pretty pointless.

I think Kagran alluded to a good point there. It's difficult enough to come up with missions that give all of the 'traditional' duty posts something to do that falls entirely within their remit throughout. Sometimes, as - for example - a tactical officer you may be asked to do something that more naturally befits a security officer or engineer if there's nothing more tactical for you to work on at the time. Or the Helm officer might find himself helping out in medical (hi, Tom!) or engineering or even security. Even if they're not explicitly handed off to those departments, they'll often be given tasks to accomplish that are more befitting of that department.

This is even more obvious with Marines, as unlike all other duty posts, *any* mission that doesn't involve shooting stuff basically has nothing for your bog-standard marine to do. Therefore it's vital, in my opinion, that PC marines have specialised skills, so that they can remain relevant and don't end up running endless training sims in the holodecks.

You have a valid point, but it depends on the mission.
You can have as many combat training sims, and all be different.
It is all in the eye of the creator.
I for a fact have conducted many combat training sims on the holodeck, and all different.
I use them as part of my job in the security department to keep things fun, and some of the crew involved during a low point during travel from place to place.

It all depends on what the crew would like to do, and how it is conducted.
My marine was a counselor, a Klingon. So she would use combat training to get to know the crew under a stressful situation.
So there is nothing wrong with combat training sims, you just have to use the in moderation.
My current PC, is a Tactical/Security Officer.
Trust me, he is not perfect.

I didn't say there was anything necessarily 'wrong' with training simulations, and I totally agree that they're an important part of the sim for some characters. I was talking more about the situation where you haven't really got a lot to do with the main plot, some 'pure' marines may feel that training sims are all they CAN do in some plotlines, because there's no 'place' for them. Which would be unfortunate. Never said there was anything wrong with a good training sim now and again. Kagran was fond of them, I seem to remember. Almost got Landau killed in one, once. Only came down to fix the [...] holoprojectors!

Agreed, they are for some, but there is more to being a marine than just bang bang pew pew.
We are not just meatheads that love combat only.
We are warriors, but as long as you show the inner part of the character you have accomplished the goal.

[Whale]

I think the issue with saying marines aren't as well trained at other things as they are at shooting is that we're back to square one -- having the marines not really well-integrated because most people don't know what to do with them. Granted, this is just my opinion, but I think un;ess we look for more integration with the rest of the crew, the marines will always be in that no man's land of unclear roles.

Integration would also help the smaller crews. For instance, on the Drake, we have a total crew compliment of 95 -- only 22 officers -- which means our security department would be quite small (5 officers + 20 enlisted, to be precise). Having a marine serving in the medical or engineering departments would give us increased strength when security really needed it, but wouldn't automatically relegate the marine officer to being just a security guy in green.

Edited by Whale, 17 January 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

It's interesting to see Marines being discussed again. One of the places that it was mentioned that the Marines were under the command of UFP, not Starfleet, was right here on our site, on the SB118-Ops website and the Wiki. It was created by the simmer who played the Marine commander before Reed stepped in, oh so long ago. The information was seconded by another player, though I'm not sure if he got his information from the same place, from another location, or from a role-play group. Given the hard work put in by both players, I chose to lead the Marine team in the same manner, but it caused such an uproar in opinions in UFOP during a discussion that I chose not to continue.

It was my feeling that the Marines should be seen as a separate entity from Starfleet, in as much that they would not be seen fulfilling Starfleet roles, the same way you would not see a Marine stepping in and filling a naval officer's shoes. Marines on Navy ships are usually just along for the ride, point A to point B. The ships they use for missions are separate and not a mix of Navy/Marine crew typically, as far as I know and from what I've read. The Marines worked quite hard to get that separation. My father was proudest about his service to the Marines, and that service ended up killing him from agent orange disease. He was not in the Navy. He was in the Marines. That's how he felt. I believe there are so many heightened emotions because you have those who wish to uphold the wishes of real life Marines and those who see the Marines as just part of the Navy. But they are called the United States Marine Corp now (at least over here), not the United States Naval Marine Corp, any longer. Though they are still under the Department of the Navy, recruitment for the Marines is separate from recruitment for the Navy, ranks are separate, etc. This could easily explain why they are not normally seen on Starfleet ships. They would have their own ships. They would be easily seen on Starbases, at embassies, etc., in my opinion, and for specialized missions I could see them serving on Starfleet ships, but sometimes I think it is hard enough to find enough to do in the regular Starfleet duty posts without adding in the Marines. For roleplay purposes, I would see that as more realistic, since we did not see Marines in the shows. Being under the purview of Starfleet is fine in my eyes, but I do believe the Marines should remain separate.

[mjohnson]

I agree wholeheartedly. Marines are seperate entitys. One of the main confusions I think that causes new simmers not to adopt Marines as a character is that like mentioned before there is close to no defined roles for the Marines and thus that is why we are often lumped in with Security. Classic example of where the differance may lay is in Star Trek First Contact when Worf mentioned how zero g training made him queasy. Marines would be better trained in that aspect as well as repelling intruders and boarding parties and as far as seperate ships are concerned YES they would have their own ships. Wouldn't it make more sense to send in a shipfull of trained Marines to a major threat than to send one that is carrying families and civilians. And naturally tbe Marines would have to be trained in shipboard operations to operate said ship. I know being stationed at the Embassy it gives me a little leeway of how to play a Marine. Already been used as part of a VIP escort mission. The current mission im unsure of at the moment I will just have to see how it plays out.

[KNicholotti]

While the ideal image of 'Marines' in the Star Trek universe almost certainly would follow some of this line of thought, integrating the Marines within the Starbase 118 realm means that we have to bend a little bit. Viewing our Marines as 'superkillers' and 'killing specialists' in the past has only wrought trouble. That said, I like the idea of having niches, so that while a Marine is not a Fleet officer per se, they can be utilized in areas other than Security. This ends up being important, not only so that the Marine in question has something to do and can be a productive member of the crew without vying for jurisdictional control with the security chief, but also to avoid nasty conflicts over the very viability and value of the Marine duty post as well.

As far as separate ships; Would Marines really have their own, separate ships? I believe most certainly that they have the fighters and maybe support craft for various squadrons, but I think if they had their own ships it would be nothing more than a clone of Starfleet itself. To pull on a real world example - our (US) Marines don't have their own ships, they call the Navy.

At the same time, it's viable to believe that every single Marine doesn't get the same training. We can reasonably imagine that they have fighter pilots, which means there are techs that handle repairs and maintenance on those fighters, which means there are probably also R&D Marines, Engineers, Medical Marines to handle wounded, cooks even and probably much more. There is a careful line you have to walk here though; while it is feasible for Marines to have secondary training in a specific niche, it is not feasible for them to have gotten as much as a Starfleet officer in the same field. (see page 2 of this thread).

close to no defined roles

This is the very root of the problem - which is why we should try to define some or at least create a loose set of boundaries for new Marines that join.

It's interesting to see Marines being discussed again.

It's one topic that won't ever die, but it can become a little bit more civil.

Edited by KNicholotti, 18 January 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

Under that model, the Marines would have ships like runabouts or small carriers that were simply for Marine missions, just like the Marines have their own small water craft. Anything that would require a bigger ship would require shuttling the crew on board Starfleet ships. That said, by 2389, what would the Marines really look like, given the current amount of separation? Would the Marines grow to having their own specialized large ships? We often discussed having a hospital ship, a ship designed to offer relief in times of battle to Starfleet, to refuge worlds, etc. Times like those, I'm guessing that hospital ship would need some serious protective firepower close by in case they would need it.

[Mhunt87]

First off I would like to introduce myself I will be playing M.H. Hunt. I myself am a marine hopeful. I have recently been doing alot of research in preparation for the role I hope to take and just thought that I would post my ideas for y'all to have a look at. I see many possibilities for Marines in Starfleet. For one Marines could take part in many holodeck battles together like Bashire and O'Brien did in DS9.

As far as specializations go is there a MOS? If not this could be one way of making each individual marine slightly specialized. I would imagine that Marines aboard a Starfleet vessel would serve as a first option away team. Also I know that someone had mentioned in this thread the possibility of a marine frigate, I support this but at the same time will go another direction. What about the possibility of a Marine Platoon or larger being based on a planet in the first stages of a colonization attempt.

These are just some ideas I have. I am sure there are more to come . Just wanted to make myself and my hopes be known.

[KNicholotti]

First, let me welcome you to Starbase 118!

As far as Marines in SB118 - we actually do have a decent sized Marine installations on two of our ships: The Embassy on Til'ahn (USS Thunder) and Starbase 118 Operations. While Marines do serve on other ships in the Fleet, it is often difficult to see just what they would do there as Starfleet Security is plenty for the needs of a ship and we've never seen anything on the TV shows or movies that can be used as a guide like it can be for other duty posts.

That said, this thread is just a place for us to discuss different ways for those who choose to play Marines to integrate into various missions with different objectives on any one of the many ships in the Fleet. In other words, it's a place for ideas and thoughts of all kinds, so it looks like you're in the right place!

I look forward to seeing you in the Fleet, welcome to Starbase 118, and welcome to the Starfleet Marines. =)

Edited by KNicholotti, 21 January 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[Marcus Raiden]

Welcome Mhunt87, sorry all been busy doing lots of stuff so will catch up reading here they post again. oh and i think where iread the federation marines thing was Star Trek Expanded Universe when i was looking for stuff so forget what i said earlyer. lol

Edited by Kagran Of The House Agan, 23 January 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Isaac Green]

It's a dangerous busines, going out your front door... That's why Marines are there. Sure, Security can handle the day to day, well - securing of things, but when the situation is greater than the sum of Starfleet's training for Security and Tactical Officers, the Marines are there to take care of business.

There sould be a Marine detachment on every starship or posting. Yeah, yeah... I know. Seek out new life, and new civilizations... but when the new life or new civilization wants to kill you, what then? Huh? That's right! The Marines are who comes when Starfleet dials 9-1-1.

Just sayin'

Ok, now that I'm done with my rant, sounding like the meatheat that I probably am, I don't mind wading through a position in the fleet that is not nessecarily cannon. There's room here to step outside of the box and explore the "what ifs" of the Star Trek universe. I really think we're doing that anyway with Starbase 118, because it wasn't cannon and neither were any of the missions or characters that are here in this fleet. We use canon as our guideline, which means we can deviate from it to some degree in our imaginative exploration of what could be.

I think adding the Marine duty post allows the fleet to get a little dark and dirty at times, which brings a level of excitement to the storyline.

Welcome to the fleet, Mr. Hunt. Semper Fi!

[Alexander Matthews]

I happen to have a Security Officer, that was a marine officer. Transferred to security. Then training and combat skills are still there, he is all about getting down and dirty. My PNPC is a marine and ready for the battle. So when there is a conflict I have the best of both worlds. Security that has marine training, and a Klingon Officer that can very nasty with a Bat'leth, and combat dagger when the time comes.

[Vance_Carter]

I know about the corpsman, my mother was one.

For the purposes of this discussion though, consider the fact that we are transplanted quite a ways into the future where combat and conflict are not quite what we know to be true here in the year 2012 on the planet Earth. Also, for the sake of discussion, consider the fact that there are not four (five) different branches of service (I am not familiar with how many branches other countries have, but I would love to get some input from those outside of the US) to draw from.

From what I know about canon, we don't see Marines or MACO teams past the years of Enterprise, when ships had a tactical Starfleet presence, but not a dedicated security presence. It is entirely plausible that the Marines were absorbed into Starfleet as things evolved and they became security. At the same time, as Lt Ingram mentioned, having Marines as a playable duty post gives the game a little more depth, especially for those who are looking for that kind of role. Furthermore, every PBeM ST RPG I've played in the past, as well as the official fan club of Star Trek, Starfleet International, have Starfleet Marines. Though they don't always make sense, they do at the same time.

I love the idea of Marine journalists...we have a Press Secretary on SB118 Ops...I think I'll put that idea into practice over here.

So, back to the topic...ultimately we know that Marines are here to stay and they aren't going anywhere. But there is a taboo that comes with playing one sometimes too - they can be seen as redundant, it is often assumed that they are too gung ho and contenscious to really work with, and having a position where it is unclear what the goals of the duty post are can easily frustrate new members/ensigns (2nd LTs) as well as Commanding officers who have to struggle to help them find a place where they can really shine. It is also the one position where we see no examples in canon, so playing a Marine is totally up to the player and that can sometimes go awry. As we are looking to create some standardized practices (cross threadding here...), is there something we can do to finitely define the duty post and the goals involved in a more in depth way than saying they are backup security, ground force meatshields, and are otherwise somewhere on the ship training for some special mission where their highly honed skills might come in handy?

I did my research on MACO, as their style of operation and the way they occasionally clashed with starfleet crew intrigued me. According to Memory Alpha, MACO is around into the 25th century and they remain as something of their own entity.