95 replies to this topic

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

I'm in process of doing a bit of additions and slight revamping of the SFMC section on the Wiki. I'm going to be adding to the weapons and equipment section and the marine facility and marine crew listings. I'd like to get your opinions on anything you would like to see added. I've got quite a bit to add already, but I could always use more ideas.

Also, I believe we only have one remaining active PNPC in the character of Chief Warrant Officer, third class Lisabellia Samhandrel. If anyone would like to take over Wriker or Brox's characters or create new ones in their stead, please let me know. Anyone is welcome to create a PNPC in any of the other positions, as well.

[Nerreht]

It's a bit personal, but I'd like Ramirez to be able to get involved with the Marines somehow. Could be something as simple as having the right to train with them, or have them as test subjects for the weapon prototypes he builds in his spare time. There are plenty of reasons for me asking that, but some of them revolve around plots that I can't talk about for the moment.

One reason being that there will be need to have the Marines get involved with Starfleet personel as much as possible if only to give you some people to sim with. Most of the things I saw when Marines were involved was that the Marines were doing their thing in their corner and took all the place when action started to happen. If we could work on a way for both Marines & Starfleet to work together on a constant basis, we'd definitely be improving on the overall "team cohesion" and we could prove that both "entities" aren't independant from each other as people tend to believe.

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

Actually, I would like to see everyone train together, especially the marines and security. Reed wants the marines to mix more with regular Starfleet, as they've tended to isolate themselves and have been spending altogether too much time in the dungeons. Given the dungeons typical clientele, Reed does not like that at all, so you might see the marines showing their faces more in the upper levels of the starbase. Uh, not sure if I like the sound of test subjects. Maybe I'll send them to you as a punishment.

[Nerreht]

Oh, I didn't mean it like "shoot at them" LOL

More like "have them test the weapons" on their firing range or something like that lol

[Delinda Sharee]

You must admit Pedro, when it comes to "The Ram" that is a point to clear up before agreeing to "testing."

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

I agree. From what I've seen so far, I have to...um...wonder.

[Nerreht]

Name one single time where Ramirez ever shot someone? He punched a few, but never shot at anybody. Actually, I don't ever remember him even grabing a phaser with the intent to shoot anything... He worked on phasers, held one in his hands, but I don't recall him ever firing one...

So my guess is that when Ramirez starts shooting people, we'll be in deep doo-doo...

[Delinda Sharee]

I geuss what I would like to see from the Marine detachment would be pnpc activity by our players. I have been working up an idea for a marine that I hope to introduce soon. I would encourge everyone who is intrested to jump in here. Let's give Major Reed some soldiers to lead.

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

Woohoo. I'm all for that. I've been doing a lot of research and should be posting more marine information in the next few days. I would love to see some pilots, so if anyone is interested in that, that would be great. Dangerous Company pilots do routine patrols. It would be fun to see this part of the company simmed and expanded.

[Nerreht]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think I'll play a Marine NPC. Nothing personal, people who know me as a simmer know that I'm not one to play NPCs to begin with, other than for my own purpose that is, or some rare occasions where a player asks me specifically to play a NPC to help with his character development. I've got more than enough things to sim about with Ramirez and stuff that revolves around him that I don't have much interest in simming another character, even if it is a NPC.

Having said that, I'll be more than happy to have Ramirez give Reed and her girl scouts a hard time

[Marine Captain Llewelyn]

I'm glad to see that there are Marines at all. Back in '99 I introduced, to my knowledge the very first UFOP incarnation of Starfleet Marines as an NPC element attatched to the USS Arizona. It was highly developed, with its own areas of responsibility, chain of command, who answers to who and more importantly who the Marines didn't answer to, (you always have some one or two pipper trying to pull rank on them so we had to put a stop to that which led to them being answerable to their commandant, who answered to the First officer who answered to the Captain. Everyone else was politely told to buzz off.) At any rate, back then the Marines were very controversial and eventually, after a mixed fleet (read that multi rpg org) joint sim in which the other sim org freaked out at the idea of Starfleet marines, they were shut down, banned, and we were told in no uncertain terms that there was no place for them in the UFOP, nor were there any justification for their existance within Star Trek. Here it is 2008, and I come back and not only are there Marines, but they've got their own Wiki! I'm guessing that Enterprise's MACO's were the key to their resurgence. I'd be very interested in helping develop the concept, but have to bone up on how you all are doing it these days. One idea that I ended up developing in another Sim Org was a Marine ship, basically an Akira Class with a fighter wing and expeditionary assault element, roughly a small battalion, that is two companies of 3 platoons each plus S1,S2, and S3 components, Officers, NCO's etc. The ship itself was commanded by a Marine Lt. Col, but the shipboard operations were run by a "Slixo or Slickso" which stood for Starfleet Liason/ Executive Officer or SL/XO. The SL/XO flew the ship where the Marines needed to go, and was the top of the command structure to which the Starfleet "Regs" as we called them answered to. The Lt. Col was in charge of Marine things, and the SL/XO was in command of the vessel itself, pursuant to the needs of the Marines. I'd love to see some ships that specialize in that kind of simming, combining both elements. Players could have PC's in the Regs and NPC's in the Marines or vice versa. It worked well in the past, maybe its something that can be developed in the UFOP now that the Marines are no longer persona non grata...

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

All right everyone, I've added information on equipment, fighters, and uniforms. Plus, I've updated the personnel slightly. Please feel free to stop by and take a look and let me know what you think.

[Rocar Drawoh]

That was a very interesting post Iolo.

There are a number of teams for Duty Posts in the fleet. (The Counsellors and the Engineers essentially) who get together to sim conferences in their duty post areas and discuss how to sim that position. Perhaps you might like to form a small group together with the marines aboard the Indria and the Challenger.

Also, why not an ooc page on the wiki on the History of Marines in the UFoP Starbase 118 rpg.

I'm not familiar with the events you describe. Perhaps Fleet Admiral Wolf will remember. However, if memory serves both Vice-Admiral Hollis and Fleet Captain Hebron used to sim as marines in the late 90s. Thereafter, I know for a fact that we used to have an active platoon of marines aboard Starbase 118 in 2001... there was Marine Captain Danar, 1st Lt Surtan'a and 2nd Lt Bevan all of whom were active players and primary characters. They did disappear for a long while after that though... sounds like there is an interesting and colourful history here. I'd like to see it documented on the wiki if possible.

[RogueGypsy47]

I like the idea of Marines and Fleet working together more, but then.. I also like the idea of the Marines existing for a reason. After all, if Marines and Security fill the exact same roles, then the waters around the two tend to get a little muddied.

Maybe if we decided exactly what the marines are expected to do and what their purpose in life is?

I can see leaning towards a Space: Above and Beyond feel, where the marines are a combination of pilots and assault specialists, especially with regards for boarding actions and ground campaigns. Leaving more defensive actions and routine protection details to security. Thoughts?

[Sakorra Jefferson Reed]

That's exactly what they are supposed to be doing. As it stands, the SB118 Marines do routine flight patrols, and they are deployed when ground troops are needed. I need to develop more of what they do when they are on the base, because there is only one squad of pilots right now. The other two have to do something.

Edited by Jefferson Reed, 01 January 2009 - 12:34 PM.

[Marine Captain Llewelyn]

That was a very interesting post Iolo.

There are a number of teams for Duty Posts in the fleet. (The Counsellors and the Engineers essentially) who get together to sim conferences in their duty post areas and discuss how to sim that position. Perhaps you might like to form a small group together with the marines aboard the Indria and the Challenger.

Also, why not an ooc page on the wiki on the History of Marines in the UFoP Starbase 118 rpg.

I'm not familiar with the events you describe. Perhaps Fleet Admiral Wolf will remember. However, if memory serves both Vice-Admiral Hollis and Fleet Captain Hebron used to sim as marines in the late 90s. Thereafter, I know for a fact that we used to have an active platoon of marines aboard Starbase 118 in 2001... there was Marine Captain Danar, 1st Lt Surtan'a and 2nd Lt Bevan all of whom were active players and primary characters. They did disappear for a long while after that though... sounds like there is an interesting and colourful history here. I'd like to see it documented on the wiki if possible.

As I said, I am unaware of any Marines prior to the ones I ran, but that is not the same as saying that other like minded parties might not have tried it. I was the one, however, that brought it to a head so to speak. In fact, our Marine operations on the Arizona went on for a year, sub rosa until they were brought to light during that infamous dual RPG org sim, when it was suddenly a VERY hot topic that both myself and the Admiral would most likely prefer to be left to obscurity. Lots of fall out resulted, and I for one am just glad to be back and see that things have progressed. I really have no desire to elaborate further on it. Subspace particles under the Nacelles, as it were, although the presence of subspace particles under the nacelles probably means that I should re-align the deflector dish...

[Marine Captain Llewelyn]

I like the idea of Marines and Fleet working together more, but then.. I also like the idea of the Marines existing for a reason. After all, if Marines and Security fill the exact same roles, then the waters around the two tend to get a little muddied.

Maybe if we decided exactly what the marines are expected to do and what their purpose in life is?

I can see leaning towards a Space: Above and Beyond feel, where the marines are a combination of pilots and assault specialists, especially with regards for boarding actions and ground campaigns. Leaving more defensive actions and routine protection details to security. Thoughts?

As I developed it, Security and Marines had VERY different duties. Security is for shipboard security, access control, law enforcement (as needed), dignitary protection, and in the absence of Marines boarding party repulsion.

The Marines on board a starship are for ship to ship boarding duties, spacebourne combat (fighter wing), limited assault, downed personnel retrieval, anti-boarding party response, and rarely for response to mutinous activity on the part of the crew.

For this reason I never EVER had the Marines answer to the Chief of Security.

Here's some background I can divulge, and those who have simmed with me will shake their heads and go, yep I can see him doing something like that:

Llewelyn transfers aboard the USS Arizona. Unbeknownst to him, the Command staff has uncovered some untoward goings on on the part of some Admiral with shadowy ties. In order to "rectify" some of what he's done, they clearly indicated IC that they were about to defy his orders AND the Prime Directive, mind you, by engaging in a covert action off ship. Now, when I came aboard they called each of the department heads together by name, but Llewelyn was not invited. So here I sit, with nothing to do, and an overdeveloped sense of duty to the Prime Directive...

I sim that the Admiral is getting the run around via subspace, and contacts Llewelyn. Now one of the things that some people don't get is that bad guys can use the law to their advantage, which I had him do. He questioned why I was not on the bridge with the rest and indicated that I was being kept out of the loop because of their intention to "mutiny". If I remember right they somehow erected a forcefield around the bridge, banning me from speaking to them or interfering. I tried to prevail upon them that their actions were not justified and would only give legitimacy to the Admiral should he choose to intervene. I was rebuffed. Okay, fine. Using a great deal of Chutzpah, I proceeded to the Engineering level, where I used my "pulled straight out of my rear end" access codes as the Chief Counselor to declare that the entire command staff was unfit for command due to mental impairment, which allowed me to transfer command to Engineering and reverse their forcefield to keep them there. This of course had long time simmers HOT but it was pursued with gusto and they found a way out and attempted to capture me. I in turn manually ejected the warp core, dropping us out of warp and dead in the water. The security staff, under the impression that I was the bad guy, and unaware of the Command staff's true intentions chased me all over the ship, and we each had each other in and out of the brig a couple of times in true Crimson Tide fashion. Eventually we reached a stalemate and they were about to re-install a new warp core when I had the Admiral send in the USS Khafji, a "Mastiff" class Marine expeditionary assault ship under the command of Lt.Col Lloyd Roberts who sent in a boarding party of Marines who attempted to retake the ship. Again, stalemate, we held parts and they held parts and Roberts withdrew his Marines and threatened to destroy the ship, under Starfleet command orders which state that any and all Starfleet personnel are considered expendable to preserve the Prime directive. The command staff surrendered and the Admiral was adament that Roberts should destroy the ship, but he told the Admiral that he was in command of the vessel and that the order to destroy the ship was unlawful under those conditions. When he visited the Command staff in the brig, they shared with him the information that they had and he bellieved them. He did not allow them to continue with their previously chosen course of action, however he did relay the information to Starfleet HQ and the Admiral was summarilly arrested.

Now, at first the crew HATED ME, but the Captain was so impressed with my first week on board that he requested that I sim a contingent of Marines on board from that day forward. The crew, although considerably annoyed at first did admit that in the end that sim episode was the single most fun any of them had had simming in a long while. Roberts was "assigned" to the Arizona to "keep an eye" on the former mutineers, and he and Jon'ay Bok, his gunnery Sergeant became every bit as much a part of the crew as any other PC. Bok gave her life on an away mission and that act has resonated to this day. It seems that Bok was a joined trill, though nobody knew it at the time. Her symbiont lives on in another character in the fleet to this day, a fact discovered when Llewelyn joined the Ronin. At any rate, Roberts transferred over to the Akira Class USS Talon, an NPC vessel assigned escort duty, and the Talon went with the Arizona to that ill fated multi org encounter with the Borg. As soon as we arrived on scene, with the Marine Fighters and Ship, all hell broke loose OOC and the rest is history that I don't want to relive...

On the other hand, that was pretty much how I won the TOSMA I...

At any rate, that story illustrates why the Marines have to be somewhat autonomous from Security. Although in this case the parties they would have answered to, the FO and CO would have been out of line, the Marines can protect the vessel from a coup on the part of security. They can also counter a mutiny on the part of the Command staff if necessary. Oh, and the Marines kick security butt any day of the week, by the way. They could have retaken the Arizona, but Roberts couldn't risk the time necessary because the mutineers were about to reinitialize the warp core and would have possibly gotten away...

As to what the Marines do when they aren't "doing anything", here's how I did it.
First and foremost the Marines train for retaking Federation starships. Theoretically they spend most of their time on the holodeck running simulations on every known Federation starship, from Starfleet Vessels, to diplomatic and trading vessels etc. The literally can step aboard any starship and by memory (or consulting the Wiki) know what is where deck by deck. They train to crack freaks, (hack shield frequencies from orbit for transporter insertions), they train for jump ship insertions into worlds which have had their atmospheres ionized to the point of making transporter insertion impossible, then they deploy pattern enhancers and sub orbital transporter relays for emergency beam out of the wounded or for expedited exfil. They guard Federation embassies on non federation worlds. They sometimes cross train with Klingon Defense forces. They are trained in Klingon, Vulcan and traditional Earth based hand to hand combat with weapons and without. They cross train for emergency disaster relief duties primarilly rapid deployment of field hospitals and shelters but also in crowd control and police duties. They train for and take part in peacekeeping operations occasionally. They fly cap over flotillas of Starfleet vessels. They train in sub orbital para assaults. They operate ground vehicles and secure real estate that the Federation wants held with boots on the ground. The "mastiff" class is essentially the spacebourne equivalent of the Marine Expeditionary Vessel, carrying four fighter wings and one complete Marine expeditionary unit complete with a Starfleet Hospital Corps run rear eschelon 1000 bed CASH unit, a division of Marine "Locust" Multi Use Landbased Excursion craft or MULES which are essentially tricked out work bees that can provide close combat air support, troop transport, and when mated with an expendable multiwheeled undercarriage serve as light infantry support and scout vehicles. The MEU consists of at least two batallions of Marine Ground Units-tactical or GrUnTs, including a logistics, supply, and intel company, as well as a Recon company.

TO & E includes: Marine Fusion Plasma rifle, which can be powered by a field expedient nuclear fusion chamber integrated into the buttstock for dire emergencies, but also by removable power cells, of which the marines carry one in the weapon, and four on their integrated KevLat Mesh body armor. The KevLat body armor and helmet are ablative, sacrificing structural integrity to diffuse phased energy blasts, but also providing excellent protection from projectile, blunt force and shrapnel threats. For more intense insertions they have Mark IV neomolybdynum microenvironmental mechanized armor, which allows them to operate in zero g and airless environments.

The Marines as I portayed them are much more military traditionalists than the run of the mill "dustbusters", their slang for Starfleet regs who carry the newer type two phaser pistols. Marines carry the older, more sturdy models ala Star Trek 6. They do stand at attention. They do salute when appropriate, but never in the field because you never know if the enemy is low on ammo and looking to take out officers. They do not have the more relaxed fraternization policies of the Starfleet Regs with regards to relationships between ranks. Their speech is altogether different, using lots of slang like "happy campers" for first aid stim packs, "freaks" for shield frequencies, "chow" for food, "head" for latrine or lavatory, "hatch" for doorway, "rack" for bed, "Hooch" for quarters, etc.

That is how I ran the Marines. I understand that there are newer incarnations, but I wouldn't mind collaborating with interested parties in creating a more developed cohesive expression of them.

Edited by Iolo Madoc Llewelyn, 02 January 2009 - 04:54 AM.

[Toni]

Please vote for SB118 in Trek Games 2008 Players Choice Awards...Go here to cast your ballot.
http://startrek-game...ead.php?t=10880

[FltAdml. Wolf]

As I said, I am unaware of any Marines prior to the ones I ran, but that is not the same as saying that other like minded parties might not have tried it. I was the one, however, that brought it to a head so to speak. In fact, our Marine operations on the Arizona went on for a year, sub rosa until they were brought to light during that infamous dual RPG org sim, when it was suddenly a VERY hot topic that both myself and the Admiral would most likely prefer to be left to obscurity. Lots of fall out resulted, and I for one am just glad to be back and see that things have progressed. I really have no desire to elaborate further on it. Subspace particles under the Nacelles, as it were, although the presence of subspace particles under the nacelles probably means that I should re-align the deflector dish...

Indeed, it was quite a contentious debate. While I don't remember the specifics, I do remember the fallout being one of those seminal events in fleet history that rotated everything and set the tone for a number of staff members for a while after that.

[Marine Captain Llewelyn]

As I said, I am unaware of any Marines prior to the ones I ran, but that is not the same as saying that other like minded parties might not have tried it. I was the one, however, that brought it to a head so to speak. In fact, our Marine operations on the Arizona went on for a year, sub rosa until they were brought to light during that infamous dual RPG org sim, when it was suddenly a VERY hot topic that both myself and the Admiral would most likely prefer to be left to obscurity. Lots of fall out resulted, and I for one am just glad to be back and see that things have progressed. I really have no desire to elaborate further on it. Subspace particles under the Nacelles, as it were, although the presence of subspace particles under the nacelles probably means that I should re-align the deflector dish...

Indeed, it was quite a contentious debate. While I don't remember the specifics, I do remember the fallout being one of those seminal events in fleet history that rotated everything and set the tone for a number of staff members for a while after that.

Hence my desire to not retread old tires... I'm just glad to be back.